The interesting thing Scott and I think this is helpful, is that 8 of the 10 most recent calls have gone against us which is feeding the narrative. Think it probably evens out over the season but people will feel the weight of the most recent ones more. And that is all after the Newcastle game which may fuel the narrative of a bias against if us
Absolutely. I was also curious how it turned out. I was surprised to see how many Arsenal got early and then it all turns against them. It could be random but who knows
12/12 plays in which Arsenal can get a call from VAR after Newcastle. The only "call" that didn't go against Arsenal was the Kiwior potential red card when he shot the ball.
You need to factor call on pitch in this. Are Arsenal fans looking for calls to be overturned? Newcastle and Villa both were harsh calls on pitch but so was Havertz red. Sill is judgement against Arsenal but the standard matters
Finished my chart, I'll send it back to the cannonstats email.
Interesting fact: three times the VAR intervened when the call was Against Arsenal originally, (United Offside Goal, Two PKs) and gave the favorable call to Arsenal. But 19 other times when VAR might intervene it has not changed the call against Arsenal. 3/22 calls against arsenal have VAR reversals (note the 22 depends on if you count Newcastle Goal as one call or multiple calls)
Flipside, when the original call is for arsenal intervention has happened four times producing an adverse result to Arsenal. 11 other times Arsenal get the on-field call and no intervention. So 4/15 calls for arsenal are reversed against them.
It would be something worth doing but it would be something that takes a good amount of time, especially now to go back and try and find the video for all the decisions.
So a larger proportion of the 50-50s go against us. I think that is how most arsenal fans feel. Woukd be interested in the ratio of calls that go mfor cs against for other teams. Maybe just city, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham
The problem with this, and with all analysis is that it really puts a lot on the back of Dale Johnson, who is basically in the business of confirming that PGMOL is indeed the best of all possible PGMOL's. He is very protective. Let's take an example. Havertz yellow at NUFC. It's a yellow all day long and the only reason it was controversial was because Newcastle was working the ref and the crowd. Slid in, no intent(I know intent isn't in the rule but its a big factor), but NUFC got all worked up, Arteta had the temerity to criticize the PGMOL and voila, the PGMOL review says the only mistake we made was not on the obvious head shot in anger by Gumariase, but it was the Havertz yellow. So the PGMOL basically used the review process to claim that the only team that had been aggrieved in the Newcastle game was Newcastle, not Arsenal with its foreign unpleasant coach who needs to learn his place. Dale Johnson goes in two-footed and never really looks at the play, but goes along with, yes the PGMOL shows its impartiality because after all, the PGMOL said that the only mistake was in favor of Arsenal. So maybe let's back off using Mr. Johnson as an impartial evaluator. We don't have anything better but that's our imperfect world. I suspect the PGMOL tells its refs to keep the home team happy on close calls, and when you have NW referees who have been cheering against Arsenal their whole lives, its going to mean Arsenal will get bad calls. But basically we need to move on. It hasn't changed since Sir Alex told his players to kick Arsenal all day long, and it's not going to change.
So I do see him go against the PGMOL and say he thinks the decision is wrong but does so in a pretty passive way.
What I think he does do is call attention to the biggest and most controversial calls of the weekend and for the quick analysis above that was good enough, regardless of what his actual analysis was.
Your mileage may vary but what I have seen is that he avoids any direct criticism except for the most egregious situations—he is usually relying on the PGMOL analysis and the only time that he really works at finding an answer is when he is explaining why fans are wrong when they see similarities to another play(I may be wrong but I don’t remember him saying yes based on play A, VAR got play B wrong—it’s usually/always play A is somehow different than play B so its not really inconsistency.). I suspect the rest of this season we will see more excused head shots on Arsenal players and various extraordinary never before seen stuff that will be explained away by Dale quoting the PGMOL, and falling back on, well maybe its unusual for a player to have two yellows on one play(or a red for non-delay in getting the ball back in play), but “if the call had been the other way, VAR would not have over-ruled it.” But I do understand that he works hard at sounding evenhanded and impartial. He probably sees his job as supporting the PGMOL against angry partisan fans.
I have to say the pattern since the NUFC game is pretty damning.
The interesting thing Scott and I think this is helpful, is that 8 of the 10 most recent calls have gone against us which is feeding the narrative. Think it probably evens out over the season but people will feel the weight of the most recent ones more. And that is all after the Newcastle game which may fuel the narrative of a bias against if us
Absolutely. I was also curious how it turned out. I was surprised to see how many Arsenal got early and then it all turns against them. It could be random but who knows
yeah its possible its random, but if we're getting 80% of these calls agasint us in March still, thats a big problem.
12/12 plays in which Arsenal can get a call from VAR after Newcastle. The only "call" that didn't go against Arsenal was the Kiwior potential red card when he shot the ball.
You need to factor call on pitch in this. Are Arsenal fans looking for calls to be overturned? Newcastle and Villa both were harsh calls on pitch but so was Havertz red. Sill is judgement against Arsenal but the standard matters
Maybe I will go back and add if it was overturned or not, see if I have time to do it.
I'll see if I can help you with a chart...:)
Finished my chart, I'll send it back to the cannonstats email.
Interesting fact: three times the VAR intervened when the call was Against Arsenal originally, (United Offside Goal, Two PKs) and gave the favorable call to Arsenal. But 19 other times when VAR might intervene it has not changed the call against Arsenal. 3/22 calls against arsenal have VAR reversals (note the 22 depends on if you count Newcastle Goal as one call or multiple calls)
Flipside, when the original call is for arsenal intervention has happened four times producing an adverse result to Arsenal. 11 other times Arsenal get the on-field call and no intervention. So 4/15 calls for arsenal are reversed against them.
I like Dale’s job but he’s fed by the PL and PGMOL. I’d rather see you reviewing all this stuff to acknowledge if his takes are right or not.
I mean, it’s quite rare that he goes against VAR/refs’ decisions.
It would be something worth doing but it would be something that takes a good amount of time, especially now to go back and try and find the video for all the decisions.
So a larger proportion of the 50-50s go against us. I think that is how most arsenal fans feel. Woukd be interested in the ratio of calls that go mfor cs against for other teams. Maybe just city, Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham
The problem with this, and with all analysis is that it really puts a lot on the back of Dale Johnson, who is basically in the business of confirming that PGMOL is indeed the best of all possible PGMOL's. He is very protective. Let's take an example. Havertz yellow at NUFC. It's a yellow all day long and the only reason it was controversial was because Newcastle was working the ref and the crowd. Slid in, no intent(I know intent isn't in the rule but its a big factor), but NUFC got all worked up, Arteta had the temerity to criticize the PGMOL and voila, the PGMOL review says the only mistake we made was not on the obvious head shot in anger by Gumariase, but it was the Havertz yellow. So the PGMOL basically used the review process to claim that the only team that had been aggrieved in the Newcastle game was Newcastle, not Arsenal with its foreign unpleasant coach who needs to learn his place. Dale Johnson goes in two-footed and never really looks at the play, but goes along with, yes the PGMOL shows its impartiality because after all, the PGMOL said that the only mistake was in favor of Arsenal. So maybe let's back off using Mr. Johnson as an impartial evaluator. We don't have anything better but that's our imperfect world. I suspect the PGMOL tells its refs to keep the home team happy on close calls, and when you have NW referees who have been cheering against Arsenal their whole lives, its going to mean Arsenal will get bad calls. But basically we need to move on. It hasn't changed since Sir Alex told his players to kick Arsenal all day long, and it's not going to change.
So I do see him go against the PGMOL and say he thinks the decision is wrong but does so in a pretty passive way.
What I think he does do is call attention to the biggest and most controversial calls of the weekend and for the quick analysis above that was good enough, regardless of what his actual analysis was.
Your mileage may vary but what I have seen is that he avoids any direct criticism except for the most egregious situations—he is usually relying on the PGMOL analysis and the only time that he really works at finding an answer is when he is explaining why fans are wrong when they see similarities to another play(I may be wrong but I don’t remember him saying yes based on play A, VAR got play B wrong—it’s usually/always play A is somehow different than play B so its not really inconsistency.). I suspect the rest of this season we will see more excused head shots on Arsenal players and various extraordinary never before seen stuff that will be explained away by Dale quoting the PGMOL, and falling back on, well maybe its unusual for a player to have two yellows on one play(or a red for non-delay in getting the ball back in play), but “if the call had been the other way, VAR would not have over-ruled it.” But I do understand that he works hard at sounding evenhanded and impartial. He probably sees his job as supporting the PGMOL against angry partisan fans.