Rio Ferdinand doesn't think Bukayo Saka is World Class, who cares?
Not me and probably neither should you
Rio Ferdinand has done his job and deserves an attaboy from his bosses.
He has gotten people rilled up with his opinions, talking about him, and looking at his videos. This time it is with the claim that Phil Foden is “World Class” while Bukayo Saka is not.
The “World Class” debate is almost entirely pointless but still perfect for the pub/online/TV segment because it doesn’t have a real definition that is agreed upon and gets people in an arguing mood. Everyone has their definition of what this means, with different weights, and it is often something that changes and isn’t necessarily consistent from player to player or rating to rating.
Like so many things with trying to rank players, either current or between eras, it makes for a fun conversation because you can’t be right or wrong when there isn’t a good definition of things unless the players are just of obviously different caliber.
When you look at these two players specifically I can’t imagine a rating system that counts one as “World Class” and the other as not. Especially when the player getting the nod as the “World Class” player is the one with worse numbers!
I don’t like to think of stats as something that ENDS these kinds of conversations because there are lots of things that stats don’t cover or are blind to, however, when the stats are like this, it should at a minimum have the person look to reevaluate their rating system (this is probably asking too much because people don’t come to these in the most cold, rational ways).
If you are more of a table person here is the stats from my attacking midfielder template for each on a per-90 basis:
A lot of the weight for Foden comes down to his team having won trophies. I always find this a little bit silly when trying to make arguments about an individual’s relative quality because trophies are so dependent on the team level.
Was Foden an important part of Manchester City’s team’s the last few years? Absolutely.
Do you believe that if they didn’t have him they wouldn’t have won them, or would have been so hurt by his absence to be materially affected? I don’t.
Foden has been a pretty involved member of these Manchester City teams but he is far from the pivotal player. So those trophies are great but I don’t think that is evidence that should necessarily push a player above another, especially when they were not the driving force for that team.
In the Premier League has played the following percentage of minutes for City:
20/21: 47% (1st)
21/22: 62% (1st)
22/23: 54% (1st)
23/24: 90% (2nd)
It is only this year that he has cemented himself as a key, every-match player for the team.
Saka during that time has done the following for Arsenal:
20/21: 75% (8th)
21/22: 87% (5th)
22/23: 93% (2nd)
23/24: 82% (3rd)
Arsenal in that time has not been as good as City but Saka has provided a bigger impact and a more important player for his team. Does that matter in making these sorts of ratings? I think it probably should.
There is also the matter of when these two are both on the same national team who is picked more. Over the last four tournaments/competitions/qualifying here is the breakdown:
In the end, it doesn’t matter if Ferdinand or any other pundit thinks a player is better than another player, or is at some mythical level. Saka is awesome and if someone doesn’t agree that doesn’t change how awesome I think he is. I feel incredibly lucky to watch this player every week play for Arsenal and do really special things for the club I love.
On the bright side, neither Foden or Saka are ever going to play for the ‘dopey’ Rio’s beloved Man Ure……
Rio misses the fact that the average quality of the UCL and the EPL is pretty close, according to most attempts at objective comparisons(ELO and OPTA). It’s not like Saka is excelling in the National League, and Foden is playing in the EPL. I have never understood why no one (except for you) uses the Southgate Test for comparison. Saka is a never drop for Southgate and has been over several cycles. Southgate uses Foden, but he’s far from being a core player like Maguire(ok the Southgate Test isn’t flawless). My personal suspicion is that the metric we are missing about Saka v Foden, as well as those you use persuasively, is that Saka is a top level defensive player. I think that Arteta starts when looking at offensive players by seeing how they contribute defensively(I am convinced that’s why he moved for Havertz). Saka excels for multiple reasons including his ability to be part of a disciplined pressing scheme, as well as being able to provide defensive cover at multiple positions. Defensive skills aren’t as easily measured but there are a big difference maker for coaches and teams.