Citeh made it work with Rodri and Fernandinho and are now making it work with Philips are they not?.......who will have gone to Citeh knowing he wasn’t first choice. But also knowing Pep rotates?
Why can’t Rice and Partey be used the same way Rodri and Fernandinho were? That will surely provide Rice, assuming he likes the Arsenal project the impetus to sign for us. There is no way Partey will play a full season and that risk increases with each season doesn’t it?
I’m not saying CL is the silver bullet btw. But why can’t rotation and attractiveness of project work as it has done with Citeh?
Fernandinho was also 35 when Rodri came in. He was pretty clearly at the end of his run.
Philips has made 0 League stats right now, I don't know really if Rice would do the same.
It isn't impossible to think you could do some sort of say 70/30 job share next year with Partey and Rice, with Rice pretty much always getting some sub minutes if the team isn't desperate behind chasing.
I don't know if Rice comes in and TAKES the spot but I do like that is a possibility for the type Arsenal are targeting.
It’s a bit of a myth that they made it work with Rodri and Fernandinho. League starts for the latter after Rodri was bought: 26, 12, 10, gone. And the 26 if you remember was mostly at CB because they had injuries.
Phillips took a big payday to go win titles. Maybe Dec does that too but the idea that he’s anything other than Cup or fitness filler is erroneous. He knows that, I suspect Rice is more ambitious.
Totally agree on the cup filler point. Then your position is a bleak one, as you are effectively saying no team can secure a high calibre replacement for a player because they cannot be guaranteed minutes? Do you believe that statement to be true?
No, but Declan Rice is now in his 7th year as a PL starter. I think unless you’re transitioning a current player to a smaller role (think:Kieran Tierney) it’s a tough sell. Plenty of quality players who are 3-4 years behind ‘ole Dec in their development who could deputize even for just 1 of the 2 years Partey has left before taking over. What happened with Bernd Leno reminds me of this a lot, except he was transferable.
If City's the model, like so many say, then I'd expect something like what they did last season (58 games)
Rodri: 45 starts
Fernandinho: 17
Or you could look at Bayern Munich, who signed one of the best CMs in their competitive set, had injuries, pwned their league and still looked like this: (47 games)
Muller: 44 starts
Kimmich: 39
Goretzka (injured): 26
Tolisso: 12
Sabitzer: 9
So the idea that a 58-game season, give or take, would get you 29/29 would at the very least be unprecedented. More likely I'd expect something like:
Player a: 45 starts
B: 35 starts
C: 25 starts
Because there will be a "best lineup" and if you're going hosting Real Madrid or AC Milan or Dortmund on Tuesday for CL and going to Brighton on Saturday, you're probably still going with your best lineup because you need to win both.
I love your stats Adam, but in terms of Rice and Partey I think you are try to solve for a problem that won’t exist. Partey has got, 1 or 2 years left at the elite level. We are likely to be competing in the CL next season.
To my mind this is the perfect time to find, bring in, and coach his replacement. Enter Rice. That’s succession planning. We can’t wait for Partey to be too old or injured to secure his long term replacement. That would be a terrible mistake in my mind.
With CL in the mix I can see Rice and Partey rotating the #6 position both in game and game by game quite happily. Yes Rice will want first team football but I think that can be offered enough of the time for him to be interested in the project.
On that basis I don’t see paying circa £400k pw on that position as an issue and with CL revenue it’s a no brainer in my mind. Thoughts?
There will have to be a first choice midfield, and one of those guys won’t be in it. Maybe it’s Xhaka. Agree wholeheartedly that succession planning for Partey needs to happen, I just question how Arsenal make that timeshare work considering other clubs (look at Real Madrid for instance, Camavinga is unhappy and they sold Casemiro) cannot. In my opinion our fans have overstated the appeal and split of a timeshare because it makes the idea of someone like Rice coming in more feasible. Meanwhile he starts 45+ games per season at WHU. Is half the PL, half the CL and cups really that sexy? Color me unconvinced, but maybe it’s his best option if everyone else moves elsewhere
Citeh made it work with Rodri and Fernandinho and are now making it work with Philips are they not?.......who will have gone to Citeh knowing he wasn’t first choice. But also knowing Pep rotates?
Why can’t Rice and Partey be used the same way Rodri and Fernandinho were? That will surely provide Rice, assuming he likes the Arsenal project the impetus to sign for us. There is no way Partey will play a full season and that risk increases with each season doesn’t it?
I’m not saying CL is the silver bullet btw. But why can’t rotation and attractiveness of project work as it has done with Citeh?
Fernandinho was also 35 when Rodri came in. He was pretty clearly at the end of his run.
Philips has made 0 League stats right now, I don't know really if Rice would do the same.
It isn't impossible to think you could do some sort of say 70/30 job share next year with Partey and Rice, with Rice pretty much always getting some sub minutes if the team isn't desperate behind chasing.
I don't know if Rice comes in and TAKES the spot but I do like that is a possibility for the type Arsenal are targeting.
It’s a bit of a myth that they made it work with Rodri and Fernandinho. League starts for the latter after Rodri was bought: 26, 12, 10, gone. And the 26 if you remember was mostly at CB because they had injuries.
Phillips took a big payday to go win titles. Maybe Dec does that too but the idea that he’s anything other than Cup or fitness filler is erroneous. He knows that, I suspect Rice is more ambitious.
Totally agree on the cup filler point. Then your position is a bleak one, as you are effectively saying no team can secure a high calibre replacement for a player because they cannot be guaranteed minutes? Do you believe that statement to be true?
No, but Declan Rice is now in his 7th year as a PL starter. I think unless you’re transitioning a current player to a smaller role (think:Kieran Tierney) it’s a tough sell. Plenty of quality players who are 3-4 years behind ‘ole Dec in their development who could deputize even for just 1 of the 2 years Partey has left before taking over. What happened with Bernd Leno reminds me of this a lot, except he was transferable.
Mmmm I’m not so sure, but all interesting and relevant points.....
If City's the model, like so many say, then I'd expect something like what they did last season (58 games)
Rodri: 45 starts
Fernandinho: 17
Or you could look at Bayern Munich, who signed one of the best CMs in their competitive set, had injuries, pwned their league and still looked like this: (47 games)
Muller: 44 starts
Kimmich: 39
Goretzka (injured): 26
Tolisso: 12
Sabitzer: 9
So the idea that a 58-game season, give or take, would get you 29/29 would at the very least be unprecedented. More likely I'd expect something like:
Player a: 45 starts
B: 35 starts
C: 25 starts
Because there will be a "best lineup" and if you're going hosting Real Madrid or AC Milan or Dortmund on Tuesday for CL and going to Brighton on Saturday, you're probably still going with your best lineup because you need to win both.
I love your stats Adam, but in terms of Rice and Partey I think you are try to solve for a problem that won’t exist. Partey has got, 1 or 2 years left at the elite level. We are likely to be competing in the CL next season.
To my mind this is the perfect time to find, bring in, and coach his replacement. Enter Rice. That’s succession planning. We can’t wait for Partey to be too old or injured to secure his long term replacement. That would be a terrible mistake in my mind.
With CL in the mix I can see Rice and Partey rotating the #6 position both in game and game by game quite happily. Yes Rice will want first team football but I think that can be offered enough of the time for him to be interested in the project.
On that basis I don’t see paying circa £400k pw on that position as an issue and with CL revenue it’s a no brainer in my mind. Thoughts?
There will have to be a first choice midfield, and one of those guys won’t be in it. Maybe it’s Xhaka. Agree wholeheartedly that succession planning for Partey needs to happen, I just question how Arsenal make that timeshare work considering other clubs (look at Real Madrid for instance, Camavinga is unhappy and they sold Casemiro) cannot. In my opinion our fans have overstated the appeal and split of a timeshare because it makes the idea of someone like Rice coming in more feasible. Meanwhile he starts 45+ games per season at WHU. Is half the PL, half the CL and cups really that sexy? Color me unconvinced, but maybe it’s his best option if everyone else moves elsewhere